Curse

Jade · Jun 04, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

300+ damage AoE in 3 seconds? Oh yea, mesmers reaaaally suck.

Clumsiness, wandering eye, echo or ineptitude. Cry of pain, Empathy, Backfire, powerspike. etc etc

Mesmers are fine in PvE. I should know, Thats my main class...

I agree with ajc. Here's an example. For the longest time I was only playing my necro. Then, like usual, I got bored and decided to start playing other characters, a different one every day. A couple days later I got back to my Mesmer which, by the way, was my favorite profession before I started to play my necro. I started to wonder why I ever stopped playing the Mes. So I fooled around, did some missions and it suddenly came to me. Playing a Mesmer isn't as fun as playing other professions because it's too damn easy. There, I said it. When I play Mesmer there's almost no challenge at all in PvE. I mean c'mon, a Wammo runs up to a group of casters and gets owned pretty fricken quick. A Mesmer on the other hand will be able to kill them in seconds. And that's just the casters......

Why all the Mesmer hate? I believe it's mainly due to the fact that other characters you play with do not see any effects of your spells. Like when they see an ele raining fire, or a wammo running in chopping, they can see them doing something. As a mesmer they just kinda sit in the back, cast their hexes, and wait. I was in a pug one time with my Mesmer and everyone else couldn't understand why the critters were dying so fast. I just sat there and giggled to myself and said nothing...

mazey vorstagg · Jun 04, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Mesmers should confuse, misdirect and 'lie' to enemies. Like a magician.

Exactly
And I like your skill too

Sniper22 · Jun 04, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

lol mesmers own enough as it is in pve. If my gwen hero can easily kill mobs with empathy/backfire with assassins promise as an elite, then a real person should have no problem making a decent build. Get some domination magic for damage and shutdown for those monks and others. Anet already gave enough pve noob buffs...

arcanemacabre · Jun 04, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

Mesmers should confuse, misdirect and 'lie' to enemies. Like a magician.

This is always what I thought they should've done with Mesmers from the very beginning. They have Domination and Illusion, and in PvE at least, they should be able to completely control mobs.

A confusion hex that causes a foe to turn on its friends? Please!

An elite that allows the Mesmer to acquire an 'advanced' pet (any non-boss mob) for a minute or two? Hell yes!

An enchantment that briefly (2-3 seconds) makes all foes in the area/nearby/adjacent attack a single friendly target, or even run away in fear? Gimme, gimme!

These are the kind of skills that could only work in PvE, and could be made in a way that is balanced, fun, useful, and unique.

ajc2123 · Jun 04, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

I agree with ajc. Here's an example. For the longest time I was only playing my necro. Then, like usual, I got bored and decided to start playing other characters, a different one every day. A couple days later I got back to my Mesmer which, by the way, was my favorite profession before I started to play my necro. I started to wonder why I ever stopped playing the Mes. So I fooled around, did some missions and it suddenly came to me. Playing a Mesmer isn't as fun as playing other professions because it's too damn easy. There, I said it. When I play Mesmer there's almost no challenge at all in PvE. I mean c'mon, a Wammo runs up to a group of casters and gets owned pretty fricken quick. A Mesmer on the other hand will be able to kill them in seconds. And that's just the casters......

Why all the Mesmer hate? I believe it's mainly due to the fact that other characters you play with do not see any effects of your spells. Like when they see an ele raining fire, or a wammo running in chopping, they can see them doing something. As a mesmer they just kinda sit in the back, cast their hexes, and wait. I was in a pug one time with my Mesmer and everyone else couldn't understand why the critters were dying so fast. I just sat there and giggled to myself and said nothing...

QFT

Also Mesmer shutdown abilities make GWEN dungeon bosses in HM seem like lvl 6 charr. And also the shutdown build will be effective against at least 80% of the enemies in the area.

And about the person who said it sucks that you can only play 1-2 builds, its always gonna be like that, because we have Ursan Blessing so.....yeah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

This is always what I thought they should've done with Mesmers from the very beginning. They have Domination and Illusion, and in PvE at least, they should be able to completely control mobs.

A confusion hex that causes a foe to turn on its friends? Please!

An elite that allows the Mesmer to acquire an 'advanced' pet (any non-boss mob) for a minute or two? Hell yes!

An enchantment that briefly (2-3 seconds) makes all foes in the area/nearby/adjacent attack a single friendly target, or even run away in fear? Gimme, gimme!

These are the kind of skills that could only work in PvE, and could be made in a way that is balanced, fun, useful, and unique.

Although this is true, I dont think the games programming would allow it. And that brings up something that I dearly want in GW2. Aggro control so tanks can actually tank. Even though we don't need it in GW1 because of the ease of it, I'm hoping GW2 will be more challenging and require some good 'tanking'. Warrior skills that make the enemies target them, Ranger skills that make them disengage combat with then, and mesmer/necromancer hexes that make them run in fear. Im praying for it.

Avarre · Jun 04, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

I agree with ajc. Here's an example. For the longest time I was only playing my necro. Then, like usual, I got bored and decided to start playing other characters, a different one every day. A couple days later I got back to my Mesmer which, by the way, was my favorite profession before I started to play my necro. I started to wonder why I ever stopped playing the Mes. So I fooled around, did some missions and it suddenly came to me. Playing a Mesmer isn't as fun as playing other professions because it's too damn easy. There, I said it. When I play Mesmer there's almost no challenge at all in PvE. I mean c'mon, a Wammo runs up to a group of casters and gets owned pretty fricken quick. A Mesmer on the other hand will be able to kill them in seconds. And that's just the casters......

Why all the Mesmer hate? I believe it's mainly due to the fact that other characters you play with do not see any effects of your spells. Like when they see an ele raining fire, or a wammo running in chopping, they can see them doing something. As a mesmer they just kinda sit in the back, cast their hexes, and wait. I was in a pug one time with my Mesmer and everyone else couldn't understand why the critters were dying so fast. I just sat there and giggled to myself and said nothing...

I think it's a more likely explanation you have no idea how other classes are played well, and thus assume you're being more effective than you are.

PS: Ele AoEDoTs are terrible, and warriors have the best DPS in the game.

Parson Brown · Jun 04, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Mesmers just operate so differently in PvE and PvP that I think general players get confused.

In PvP, Mesmers excell at shutdown and e-denial, both of which are not really needed in PvE. But a human opponent will change his behavior in response to what the mesmer does.

In PvE, a mob will continue doing what it does regardless of the Mesmer's actions. So, hexes that act as melee shutdown in PvP become damage skills, because the mob will continue attacking/casting through the hex.

aapo · Jun 04, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

A confusion hex that causes a foe to turn on its friends? Please!

- Like Confuse in Diablo II?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

An elite that allows the Mesmer to acquire an 'advanced' pet (any non-boss mob) for a minute or two? Hell yes!

- Like Revive in Diablo II?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

An enchantment that briefly (2-3 seconds) makes all foes in the area/nearby/adjacent attack a single friendly target, or even run away in fear? Gimme, gimme!

- Like Taunt or Howl in Diablo II?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

These are the kind of skills that could only work in PvE, and could be made in a way that is balanced, fun, useful, and unique.

- Yup, but skills have to be usable the same way in both PvE and PvP. Why? Ask ANET. There's 1235 different skills in Guild Wars according to GuildWiki. There are only 210 skills in Diablo II, yet Blizzard had the balls to promptly declare some skills unusable in PvP if they made no sense there.

Abedeus · Jun 04, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Probably a Mesmer could control a mob. I mean, I do that all the time. Warriors chasing your monks? Auspicious Incantation + Mantra of Renewal -> DEEP FREEEEZEEEE. Then give them a nice combo of Clumsiness/Wandering Eye and there you go. You can also just cast Empathy followed by Cry of Pain.

Tyla · Jun 04, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Easy, give enemies in PvE more...."Sane" energy levels and make them a worthwhile challenge.

Mesmers are already a viable profession in PvE anyway. Primary or secondary, they have access to Cry of Pain. And even then, PvE is EASYEAYSEYASYEYASEYAESYYSYEYAYESYAE.

kostolomac · Jun 04, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

If e-denial was viable in pve , mesmers would be a bit more appreciated , right now a shutdown-ed enemy in pve is a dead enemy , so shutdown skills aren't popular. Giving more firepower to mesmers besides CoP and the highly conditional spells like empathy and backfire would be nice , and revert mantra of recovery.

gremlin · Jun 04, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

The mesmer hate probably comes from the smug air they seem to have.

Imagine the battle over The warriors are covered in blood and gore.
The Ranger is busy recovering arrows. "as if"
The Monk Ele and Necro are sweating from the effort of blasting off huge numbers of spells.

There stands the mesmer dressed perfectly not even breathing hard then he rubs it in by saying.
Well that was rather easy shall we find another mob.

Of all the classes I believe the mesmer is the one that for pve at least has hardly been tested fully.
The other classes seem to offer more as a primary class so it gets relegated to an excellent secondary class.

They can easilly and completely disable one opponent whether by stealing their skills damaging draining energy pool or just preventing them casting anything.

mazey vorstagg · Jun 04, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

The main problem is shutdown is not cheap nor quickly recastable nor aoe. In PvE any mob that's not a boss (and sometimes bosses too) die very fast. If you shut them down they die even faster but you've got to wait another 20 seconds for your skills and energy to return to normal.

They're too single target to be viable in pve, which is a multi-target-field.

One more point: Another problem is they are best suited to killing a single target on their own. If other people join in then the mesmers wasting their energy and recharges. So with H/H either playing as a mesmer yourself or with a hero one it is a sub-par class. If you shut down a mob yourself the H/H fearlessly run in and kill it quickly meaning your 26 second degen only lasted 5 secs and backfire only triggered once. If you have a mesmer hero they only attack what you do and so waste their energy too. However if you are in the habit of running "straight" builds with human teams I can see why a mesmer would be useful, especially if their target was known to the team before the pull. Then a mesmer could "crowd control" a target or two, allowing the rest of the team to finish off the mob without taking big damage or having to damage through healing.

Lord High Pwner · Jun 04, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

and IF they do that boy are caster classes gonna be in trouble when coming across mesmer mobs.

Yeah i can imagine trying to kill the wind riders on way to Oolas Lab would be a nice cry, and frustration.

kostolomac · Jun 04, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Linkin CoP to fast casting would give more popularity since necros , kinda do anything better due to SR.

ajc2123 · Jun 04, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

The Monk Ele and Necro are sweating from the effort of blasting off huge numbers of spells.

Yea spamming flare must be really tiring on all those poor elementalists

bhavv · Jun 04, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

How about these:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Mesmer:

- Energy Surge / Energy burn - 10s recharges
- Shatter enchant / Mirror of disenchantment - 15s recharges
- Spiritual Pain - Back to 106 AoE damage
- Enchanters Conundrum - Back to the imba 106+ damage when it ends
- Hex Eater Vortex - 10s recharge, 126 damage (it is currently worse then shatter hex for PVE)
- Ineptitude - 15 sec recharge
- Clumsiness / Wandering eye - 8 sec durations, maybe more damage
- Images of Remorse - 1s cast time, same damage as clumsiness but single target only

Just little fixes for PVE only.

englitdaudelin · Jun 04, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I've become a mesmer fan in the last month or so, mostly because my mesmer, and some heroes, ate alive mobs of torment demons. These used to give me fits. Ineptitude+clumsiness+mistrust (there's your AoE skill) = quick death.

My gripe-- the long recharge. So many skills are 20 and 30 second recharges, that leave me not doing enough. I open with spike/hex and degen, and then sit and wait for energy to zip back up, and skills to recharge.

I don't need more AoE, or more power (bigger numbers don't do much for me)...but I'd like to feel just a bit more useful, more frequently.

The necro got 1e casts on the sacrificing skills...now how about odd recharge times (-3 seconds on all skills would lead to 12, 17 second recharges. Not so bad!)

ajc2123 · Jun 04, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

The necro got those boosts because their sac skills pretty much sucked with the energy AND loosing health. Cost was way too high for the reward. They needed the buff, Mesmers don't. Their skills are Really powerful and at not as much of a cost, so their fine.

kostolomac · Jun 04, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by englitdaudelin

I've become a mesmer fan in the last month or so, mostly because my mesmer, and some heroes, ate alive mobs of torment demons. These used to give me fits. Ineptitude+clumsiness+mistrust (there's your AoE skill) = quick death.

My gripe-- the long recharge. So many skills are 20 and 30 second recharges, that leave me not doing enough. I open with spike/hex and degen, and then sit and wait for energy to zip back up, and skills to recharge.

I don't need more AoE, or more power (bigger numbers don't do much for me)...but I'd like to feel just a bit more useful, more frequently.

The necro got 1e casts on the sacrificing skills...now how about odd recharge times (-3 seconds on all skills would lead to 12, 17 second recharges. Not so bad!)

I totally agree , the recharge is the biggest issue , not the damage which is awesome.